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So, as the son of a fireman, I have to say this:
If you're going to be playing with fire (as many of us are on the playa) please consider the clothing you're wearing. I saw a young woman in a polyester tutu try to spin fire while drunk last year... it lit on fire twice. Bad stuff. Now, that's an extreme, but here's a few things to consider:
Polyester, as well as most plasticy fabrics such as Vinyl, has a wonderful tendancy to melt to skin when heated. This means if you're wearing vinyl pants or polyblend leggings and your fire poi wrap up on you or you run through a fire, your pants just turned into napalm on your skin and the only way to remove it is surgically, along with the skin it just fused to... and you may not realize the danger until you've already got a patch of that pretty costume you made permanently fused to your side. Please be aware of this if you plan on playing with fire. Also, many of these fabrics release toxic fumes when burned.
Generally speaking, natural fabrics such as wool or cotton burn instead of melting. This is actually a good thing... you can put it out quickly and then remove the item in question. Thicker fabrics such as heavy wool will also block heat for a bit, giving you a moment to do the old stop drop and roll before you're in a serious situation, plus they take longer before they catch. Rayon also does this. As such, these are good fabrics to wear while playing with fire. Leather is good for this purpose too, but remember that fake leather is Vinyl, AKA solid napalm.
Garments with very high surface area, especially poly meshes and fake fur, recieve heat quickly, meaning they burn fast. It's like a thick log vs a bunch of very thin sticks... the sticks catch faster in a fire because more of the material is closer to the heat source. As such, playing with fire while wearing fake fur is a very bad idea, and yes I have seen someone light themselves up quite spectacularly this way.
So yeah, something to think about.
If you're going to be playing with fire (as many of us are on the playa) please consider the clothing you're wearing. I saw a young woman in a polyester tutu try to spin fire while drunk last year... it lit on fire twice. Bad stuff. Now, that's an extreme, but here's a few things to consider:
Polyester, as well as most plasticy fabrics such as Vinyl, has a wonderful tendancy to melt to skin when heated. This means if you're wearing vinyl pants or polyblend leggings and your fire poi wrap up on you or you run through a fire, your pants just turned into napalm on your skin and the only way to remove it is surgically, along with the skin it just fused to... and you may not realize the danger until you've already got a patch of that pretty costume you made permanently fused to your side. Please be aware of this if you plan on playing with fire. Also, many of these fabrics release toxic fumes when burned.
Generally speaking, natural fabrics such as wool or cotton burn instead of melting. This is actually a good thing... you can put it out quickly and then remove the item in question. Thicker fabrics such as heavy wool will also block heat for a bit, giving you a moment to do the old stop drop and roll before you're in a serious situation, plus they take longer before they catch. Rayon also does this. As such, these are good fabrics to wear while playing with fire. Leather is good for this purpose too, but remember that fake leather is Vinyl, AKA solid napalm.
Garments with very high surface area, especially poly meshes and fake fur, recieve heat quickly, meaning they burn fast. It's like a thick log vs a bunch of very thin sticks... the sticks catch faster in a fire because more of the material is closer to the heat source. As such, playing with fire while wearing fake fur is a very bad idea, and yes I have seen someone light themselves up quite spectacularly this way.
So yeah, something to think about.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Mon, August 11, 2008 - 11:17 PMI'd like to add a comment to this (from the perspective of some who will be spinning fire for a few hours most nights).
If you are foolish enough to spin in fishnets and faux fur or whatever, and think that you are only putting yourself at risk, you are incorrect. Any person that decides to help put you and your melting costume out will be rewarded with the chance to have hot melted plastic burned into their hands. It can even soak through a duvatine if you are lucky. This is not speculation, I have seen this happen personally, and it was pretty weak. So if you want to put on that santa costume and spin, do everyone a favor and go deep playa with your stupidity, before you hurt someone dumb enough to try to help you when you turn into a jolly old fireball.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 7:18 AMWe don't spin, we're on fire safety (fuels) and we wear the goggles and long cotton sleeves. Some years we even break out the old Harley leathers. For the vegans, those cows were dead a Very Long Time Ago. Leathers don't catch on fire unless you really, really try hard. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 11:56 AMas far as leather goes, i was thinking of getting a few real leather coats from the thrift store, and cutting them up to make a little loin-cloth/halter-top combo.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 7:21 AMThanks Jaron.
Never light up without a Tech.
Always 100% cotton and NOTHING ELSE. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 9:10 AMIt doesn't need to be cotton. Wool is great, especially thick wool, and as someone else pointed out, leather is great. Rayon actually works, and hey, if you want to make an outfit out of duvateen, go for it! But for the love of god, no poly blend mesh tutus. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 10:05 AM...but I want to spin in my poly blend mesh tutu, you guys are no fun.
Can I add in here, under no circumstances is it okay to try to hug a fire dancer while they are spinning. BAD IDEA, just don't do it. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 10:17 AMOh man, seriously. I've had to play security a few times when drunk people tried this move on my camp mates while they're spinning. Remember the old rules of LSD: Fire hurts, cars are real, you can't fly. In other news, it's also a bad plan to try and walk within 1' of a fire spinner, assuming those poi won't hit you... while approaching the spinner from behind.
Also those feather boas? They don't mix with fire either. -
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Unsu...
Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 10:55 AMThanks, Jaron! As a costumer I'm often dealing with "But I WANNNNT to wear (insert sexy but really flammable costume here).... Unfortunately, I don't always have final approval as to what is worn. My standard line is "This costume isn't flame resistant (and/or) has not been treated with a flame retardant. I highly recommend you do not wear it if you are playing with fire. If you choose to, you do so at your own risk, and I will not be held accountable for your choice."
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Sun, August 17, 2008 - 6:55 PMYes, safe fabrics..
Cotton
wool
linen
rayon
silk- note it won't protect you much but it won't melt either
leather
Nomex
preox- this and nomex are specialty fire resistant fabrics.
fishnet is funny... there are a few times when I have seen this used as a skilled prop so I don't recomend this as a standard BUT seeing to contact eaters melt this off each other as a striptease is kinda hot (not for begginers)
and now a breif mention on flamex.... IF you do for whatever reason need to perform in a lass safe fabric treat it with flamex. I worked on a show once where the theme was victorian picnic, one girl showed up in a poofy nylon chiffon dress... GASP. I sprayed her down hard core with flamex because we had to make this work. all though she did hit the dress a couple times the result was a singe and flame that went out immedatly.
and while we are on the subject some hair accessories are more flame resistant than others. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Sun, August 17, 2008 - 6:56 PMBTW do not make anything out of duvateen, all it is is treated flanell, you wash it once and the treatment is washed away. Not reall practical
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Sun, August 17, 2008 - 9:21 PMSilk is great, unless it is a really loose weave. I'd say wool>silk>cotton in terms of standard fabrics, but thickness and tightness of the weave is critical, wool and good cotton tend to be thicker than silk. Nomex is really hot to wear, and flight suits look lame (yes, I have one, it is sort of the lab safety goggles of firespinning costumes), kevlar knit (sleeves, etc) is super scratch but good to have as a safety augment for certain props/styles (wraps, whips, zip, etc).
99% of all fire retardants are carcinogenic, by the way. Might just be better to skip the sketchy costume for spinning. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Mon, August 18, 2008 - 6:36 PMI made my self a pait of nomex booty shorts and a halter top... not too bad :-)
Yes its ALL in the weave.
hehehe yeah inhaling kerosene fumes or eating with white gas is sorta carcinogenice too :-)
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 12:20 PMHow well does heavy raw silk hold up? The nubby not-shiny stuff. I have a few vintage bolts of it I inherited from mom.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 12:45 PMyour best bet is to do a burn test - take a small sample and put a lighter to it.... actually take two samples; burn one on the edge to see how it'll respond - ash or melt, etc ... this sample will light and burn faster. the second, burn across the face of the fabric - this will give you a better idea of how a garment would burn if it came in contact with flames.
that said, natural fibers (including silk) tend to burn to ash - which is safer than synthetics
synthetics almost ALL melt and bond to whatever they are covering - normally human flesh.... flesh/melted plastic bonding is NOT a pleasant experience at all....
also, keep in mind that when dealing with fire safety, there is the added mix of FUEL being included. your silk that does not (assumption) burn much under normal conditions WILL burn much more if there is a fuel transfer from fire tool contact.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 11:39 PMwww.ci.phoenix.az.us/FIRE/firefbrc.html
That link should answer your questions about silk (and a few other things).
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Not just for fire spinners...
Tue, August 12, 2008 - 7:55 PMThis thread is not only for fire performers and those who hang with them. Fire is EVERYWHERE at Burningman. Burn barrels, fire art, renegade performers, moving vehicles, you name it.
And you, with your big furry coat, pimpin fur hat and blue synthetic wig, or your giantass cool as hell costume that blinds your peripheral vision causing you to bump into people and spill their drinks... are walking ignition.
Always be aware of your clothing, and what is going on around you... the amount of personal space you consume grows on the playa, with backpacks, costumes, big hair and big boots... all that stuff.
My closest call ever didn't come from fire spinning. I was wearing a fur hat and went to toss something into a burn barrel... I didn't realize how close I was to it and just how big my hat was... and group of people grabbed me and pulled me back because I was clearly too close.
So yeah, Fire Safety and Clothing... it's not just for fire spinners anymore!
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Sun, August 17, 2008 - 6:25 PMFire safety is something that ought to be learned before ever lighting up, but we all know there are far too many who don't follow those rules no matter how much warning you attempt to give. Aside from that I just wanted to say thanks for the post. I've been fire spinning for a few months and never took the time to ask about materials other than cotton, which I've been sticking to (not literally ;) though I've been considering making some duvy attire when i get the time.
Glad to know about rayon and wool though - not that I have much of either, but good to know none the less.
Happy spinning and always remember - safety 3rd!
:)
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Unsu...
Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Mon, August 18, 2008 - 8:52 PMThank you for this wonderful thread. I am a beginning fire spinner and I have learned a lot by just watching. Natural fabrics for me, thank you.
I have a question though, would spraying natural fabrics with fire retardant work?
My next ambitious costume plan is a pigskin catsuit. Around here, overkill is the norm. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Mon, August 18, 2008 - 9:17 PMI'd also like to add that the clothing you spin in should stay IN PLACE! There was one occasion when I was giving a fire performance in a tube top, and the thing kept falling down during my performance. I had to keep asking one of the other artists there to pull my shirt up because, while they might have enjoyed a topless fire dancer, it really messed up my concentration. I ended up thwacking myself with my poi, right underneath my right armpit. Its not (by FAR) the worst burn I've ever seen, but I doubt I'd have done it at all if I'd have been more appropriately dressed. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Mon, August 18, 2008 - 10:33 PMflamex in the long run degrades and destroys fabrics, keep this in mind prior to treating anything.
Hehehe Yeah I was spinning once and the laces on my shorst snapped and suddenly I found myself with my pants arouns my ankels.... it was the strange moment where my brain when oh crap my pants fell down oh crap i have flaming objects in my hands oh double crap there are kids in the front row!!!! I droped to my knees quicklt switshed both poi to one hand grabed my pants and got up and had my saftey put me out so I could fix the wardrobe malfunction :-)
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 6:41 PMI didn't see this earlier, but leather alone is PLENTY. Leather takes a long time to start burning, it won't melt, and generally speaking you're absolutely fine in it. If the leather lights on fire, you're in such high heat that you're doomed anyway.
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Unsu...
Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 6:15 AMLOL Yeah, I have learned to "wear in" and practice performances in potential costume pieces before going on in front of audiences, that way, any adjustments and changes can be made. Avoiding wardrobe malfunctions make the show go smoother.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 8:02 PMI've seen ALOT of fire oopies due to clothing. Tights melting to girls legs, tutus aflame, yarn hair falls catching, hairspray making people look like Hades from Hercules, lots of singed fur as well.
Also, some poi manufacturers have the balls to make fire poi with nylon handles. haha. My ex has a HUGE scar on his hand from said handles melting to his fingers.
Cotton, Linen, Denims, Leather are the only way to go for me....or nakey... :) -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Wed, April 8, 2009 - 10:33 PMActually, our conclave is talking about doing the show naked this year. Yehaw. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Thu, April 9, 2009 - 11:07 AMhaha. do it! I wanted to do that for ours as well, but the thought didn't really fly well with everybody else... :( -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Thu, April 9, 2009 - 1:42 PMAlso I know braids are really popular but once when I was doing fire safety
for a fire hooper I watched her almost catch her braids (her REAL hair) on
fire multiple times. Just about gave me a heart attack. I would recommend
pulling back any hair you don't want to accidently singe or burn off.
Just a thought.
Vix -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Fri, April 10, 2009 - 6:59 AMLeather skull cap is the answer to flying hair.
The whole point of protective clothing is the "Protective" part. Nekkid is free and fun, but provides 0% protection from flaming toys. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Fri, April 10, 2009 - 10:21 AMIt is, however, better than the synthetic stuff. If you get fire on you while naked, you're going to know right away, and can deal with it quickly. You might get a mild burn, but it's easy to treat. This is NOTHING compared to what happens when something melts to your skin. Obviously, jeans and a wool shirt beats the heck out of naked for protection, but naked is still far better than polyblend tutus and fake fir. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 9:08 PMI love doing fire naked.... but getting naked while doing fire is sorta part of my act -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 12:26 AMI've heard of a few shticks in my life, and that one's pretty good.
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Thu, April 9, 2009 - 4:23 PMThanks for the reminder!
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 11:45 AMTo add one thing, there are a few artificial fabrics that are fine... but that are made for heat. Nomex and Kevlar are great, though Kevlar can't be dyed. Still, Kevlar will stop heat like nothing else, and it's nearly indestructable... if you don't mind being yellow. -
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Wed, May 27, 2009 - 12:28 PMhmmm, I dye my kevlar sleeves all the time! Perhaps that is different Kevlar... -
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Unsu...
Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Thu, May 28, 2009 - 2:10 PMIt probably isn't 100% kevlar.. but a nomex/kevlar blend... here're some articles with the science involved:
www.pburch.net/drupal/
trj.sagepub.com/cgi/conten...ct/64/7/423
www.patentstorm.us/patents/...tion.html
Any time you modify a flame resistant fabric, the fabric needs to be retested to see if it's flame resistant properties have been altered
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Re: Fire Safety and Clothing
Sat, May 30, 2009 - 7:21 PMA lot of places sell a Kevlar/Nylon blend to allow for dying. Obviously, this drastically changes the heat tolerances of the material, so you might want to check for that.
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